This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on July 7, 2024. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Shannon Bream.
President Biden fights for his political life trying to convince his party and his country he's fit to serve another four years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think anybody's more qualified to be president or win this race than me.
BREAM (voice-over): President Biden in full damage control mode after plunging polls follow his disastrous debate performance dividing members of his own party.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: He said he's all in. I doubled down and said I'm all in.
REP. JARED HUFFMAN (D-CA): But we need to reset. We need a course correction. We've got to acknowledge that this was not just one bad night.
BREAM: There are growing calls for Vice President Kamala Harris to step up and replace Biden, including from former Ohio Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan. He joins us live.
Then if Biden drops out, does the Trump campaign have a plan to face a younger more vigorous candidate?
We'll ask Congressman Byron Donalds who could end up on the ticket himself.
Plus --
ALINA HABBA, TRUMP LEGAL SPOKESPERSON: It is a good day when the Supreme Court recognizes constitutional rights of presidents and the executive branch.
BIDEN: And any president, including Donald Trump, will now be free to ignore the law.
BREAM: Almost a week after the Supreme Court handed down its decision on presidential immunity, the fallout continues. Our legal panel examines how the court's ruling will affect all the cases, state and federal, against former President Trump.
All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): Hello from FOX News in Washington.
A quick look at your morning headlines:
The Texas Gulf Coast is under numerous flood, damaging wind and storm surge warnings as Beryl is forecast to regain strength and make landfall early tomorrow morning as a hurricane.
More than 132 million Americans are dealing with extreme heat on the West Coast and parts of the East Coast. In California, firefighters face blistering temperatures as they battle a major wildfire in Santa Barbara.
And France is holding a second round of elections today that could hand an historic victory to the far-right National Rally party, crushing blow to center left President Emmanuel Macron.
That rejection of the status quo is being felt all across the West, including here at home where President Biden fights for his political career and President Trump gains ground in the polls.
In a moment, we'll get reaction from one of the first prominent Democrats to call for President Biden to step aside, former Congressman Tim Ryan and Republican Congressman Byron Donalds.
But, first, we turn to the battleground state of Pennsylvania. Lucas Tomlinson is in Harrisburg where President Biden will hold a rally after a visit to Philadelphia -- Lucas.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, on the banks of the Susquehanna, President Biden has returned here to Pennsylvania, a state he has visited more than any other outside of his home in Delaware. And despite calls from some of his fellow Democrats to bow out of the race, in an exclusive interview with ABC News anchor George Stephanopoulos, the president says only one thing can get him to do that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: If you can be convinced that you cannot defeat Donald Trump, will you stand down?
BIDEN: It depends if -- I mean, if the Lord Almighty comes out and tells me that, I might do that.
TOMLINSON (voice-over): As a growing number of House Democrats call on Biden to abandon his re-election efforts, the president is swatting down concerns about his mental acuity, while defending his record at home and abroad.
BIDEN: I'm the guy that shut Putin down. No one thought could happen.
TOMLINSON: But the first elected Democrat to call for Biden to step aside is not convinced.
REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D-TX): The need for him to step aside is more urgent tonight than when I first called for it on Tuesday. We're wasting our time defending him when we should be pointing out the shortcomings, the failures the wrongdoing of Donald Trump.
TOMLINSON: Still, other Democrats are defending Biden's performance.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Now, since he's under such a microscope, all of us looking for those flubs. What would be a normal part of any conversation is considered to be a national security problem, not so.
TOMLINSON: One Democratic powerhouse widely seen as a potential Biden replacement says he has no plans to jump in the race.
REPORTER: If it comes to an open convention, will you run?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: No, I mean, it's not even --
REPORTER: Absolutely not?
NEWSOM: And it's not even -- it's to me, it's the hypothetical that gets in the way of progress in terms of promoting this candidacy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TOMLINSON (on camera): Two radio hosts have now come forward to say the Biden campaign gave them questions in advance of their interviews with the president. The campaign says these were merely suggestions and the hosts were free to ask any questions they wanted. The campaign now says it has suspended the practice -- Shannon.
BREAM: Well, we know you're covering him today. We'll watch for that, Lucas. Thank you very much.
Now, before we get to our guests, I want you the viewers at home to know something, our team has spent days reaching out to dozens of lawmakers and Biden advocates and allies. We've had numerous interactions with the Biden- Harris campaign, but not a single potential guest was either able or willing to join us on today's show to defend the president and his decision to stay on the ticket.
So we will be having a conversation without that voice which we have been working around the clock to avoid.
Joining me now former Ohio Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan.
Welcome to the show, sir. Good to have you.
TIM RYAN (D), FORMER OHIO CONGRESSMAN: Thank you.
BREAM: Okay. So you were one of the first prominent Democrat voices to come out and say President Biden needs to think about stepping off the ticket and he needs to think about or (ph) Democrats do replacing that ticket with Vice President Harris.
This is what the president said Friday night when he was asked about whether he's getting pressure from current Democratic leadership here on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: If Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Nancy Pelosi come down and say, "We're worried that, if you stay in the race, we're going to lose the House and the Senate," how will you respond?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: I -- I would go into detail with them.
I have spoken to all of them in detail, including Jim Clyburn, every one of them. They all said I should stay in the race, stay in the race. No one said -- none of the people said I should leave the race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: So he says they want him to stay in the race in short of the Lord Almighty coming down, he's not leaving. But we know that the House's top Democrat, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries is having a virtual meeting today with other Democrat leadership. Is there a chance he comes out and publicly says something different? And would that be what it takes to nudge the president?
RYAN: You know from what I'm hearing from rank and file members of Congress, you saw a couple come out this weekend, Angie Craig who's in a swing district up in Minnesota. Minnesota's now in play.
I think you're going to see a significant amount of pressure whether it's today or tomorrow, sometime this week, as the members come back that -- that this may be untenable for them to all, you know, want to run under a Biden ticket, because it's going to be -- it's going to drag everybody else down, and I think that's a major, major concern for Leader Jeffries who's a phenomenal leader. And -- but I think his members, donors, activists around the country are very, very concerned.
So I think you'll see a lot more of that this week.
BREAM: So the president was pushed Friday night repeatedly about negative numbers, things that are not going well for him, the reality of the situation, and he pushed back saying he doesn't believe that data.
Now, do you get the sense that he's still being insulated by his inner circle from the reality of his situation or does he simply believe that that data, those polls are not correct?
RYAN: I -- you know, I think it's incredible how presidents get so insulated and sometimes from reality, and I think we saw that with the president the other night like you can't deny it. And it's not just the polls -- I mean, I'm here in Ohio like just -- you can't go to a coffee shop, you can't go to a bar, you can't go to a soccer game where people aren't talking about this in a negative sense.
And so, that reality is there and I think, you know, it's important to be loyal, but part of being loyal is being honest. And I think we have to be honest to each other of just how difficult of a situation this is.
And, Shannon, I'm telling you, the American people are dying for some aspiration, for some inspiration, for some hope, some reconciliation coming together, some fellowship, some healing. And we need a candidate that can get us to that point and that candidate is going to I think do very, very well in this election.
BREAM: So, the president was pressed though if he stays on the ticket and loses to President Trump about how he would feel about that. Here was his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And if you stay in, and Trump is elected, and everything you're warning about comes to pass, how will you feel in January?
BIDEN: I will feel, as long as I gave it my all, and I did the -- good a job as I know I can do -- that's what this is about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: What was your reaction to hearing that as his assessment of how he would play this thing out?
RYAN: You know, I just that -- that was very frustrating and I think that is what really got under the skin of a lot of members of Congress. It -- this isn't like we get participation trophies here and congratulations, you did the best you could.
If this is a sporting event and you throw three interceptions, the coach pulls the quarterback. If you're a pitcher that's not getting the job done and they're hitting home run dingers left and right, you -- the manager goes in and pulls the pitcher out.
And that's kind of where we are right now in my estimation, I think in the estimation of guys like David Axelrod and James Carville, like really high functioning political strategist on the Democratic side, the ones that actually helped us win over the years are saying the same thing.
And it's like, look, this -- this is out of love. We love Joe Biden, like he accomplished so much, I think reindustrialize the country.
In Ohio, we're building chips, we're building electric battery plants -- batteries. We're building electric vehicles. Like, we're -- we're the economy is being reshored, jobs are being reshored for the first time in decades.
He did that. He helped do that, like we have accomplishments but that message isn't getting out because it can't get articulated.
And the vision that we want for America, the healing, the reconciliation, people want to come together. They're so tired of like the Vietnam era generation and the fights that we've been having basically since the Vietnam War with each other.
We are not each other's enemy. We are each other's -- you know, we're patriots here to try to make America successful. We're friends, we're family members and we got to heal.
But we need a candidate that can come in and do that. I particularly think Kamala Harris can come in and help us -- help us heal. But we need a candidate that can do that because the country is ready to move on from the Trump-Biden.
All those double haters that you've talked about over the last few weeks, they don't -- they don't like Trump, they don't like Biden. Let's give them a candidate they can rally around so this country can heal and we can become Americans again and not just Democrats and Republicans.
BREAM: Well, let me ask about this because so much of the conversation we're hearing from Democrats publicly and privately is they're worried about him being unable to beat President Trump. It's not the conversation that he may be unable to govern now. Those are two very different things.
"New Yorker Magazine" has this: They say this is what the 25th Amendment was designed for if Joe Biden doesn't willingly resign, there's another solution which would allow Democrats to unite around a new incumbent.
So, should we be having the conversation if you think he's so ill-equipped to run and win about whether he's able to govern now? Would you support a move on the 25th Amendment?
RYAN: I think -- I think it's a totally different argument because making the argument, being on the campaign trail, being in a debate is much different than deliberating in private around what direction the country is going to go in on a particular foreign policy issue or domestic issue. Those are two separate things.
I think the concern -- now, would that be a concern in two years? Yeah, I think that's what most Americans are evaluating now. They see the president whether at the debate or even in the interview the other day and say, well, I mean, he could probably you know do this for another six months or so, but can he do it two years from now? The answer is probably no, and I think that that's what people are going to vote on.
But when it comes to a campaign, like what happened during the debate is Trump which obviously lied 27 different times, he was able to, you know, make a make a new narrative out of the economy when he was in, a new narrative out of COVID when he was in, and the president -- President Biden was not able to push back and articulate why he was wrong and what direction he wants to take the country in.
BREAM: Yeah, it's an important part of campaigning. I would note that fact checkers, including "The New York Times" found that President Biden lied as well during the campaign and that debate.
Congressman, we appreciate your time. We'll see how this plays out.
RYAN: Thank you. Appreciate it.
BREAM: Okay. Joining us now, Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds.
Congressman, welcome back.
And I want to start with you the same place, that this conversation about the 25th Amendment. Two of your GOP colleagues have offered up a resolution calling on the vice president and the cabinet to move on that.
Now, "The Federalist" notes that would be tough for Republicans because you'd be then up and against an incumbent, a President Harris, going into November. But they say this: that might prompt some congressional Republicans to remain silent rather than demand Vice President Harris and Biden's cabinet deliver a declaration of incapacity, but they too took an oath to bear true faith in allegiance to the Constitution and faithfully discharge the duties of the office.
Do you think the president is well enough to continue on? Would you support a move on the 25th Amendment?
REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): First of all, it's good to be with you.
I do not believe that Joe Biden has the capabilities of serving out the rest of this term, let alone running for president. The Democrats are the ones who have a serious issue here, not the Republican members on Capitol Hill.
I do agree we do have a responsibility to make sure that the occupants of the Oval Office has the mental capabilities to do that job, but that responsibility relies with the Vice President Kamala Harris and with the cabinet.
What we are seeing is that they have decided to cover up for Joe Biden to protect their radical agenda as opposed to doing what is in the best interest of the American people.
If that resolution hits the floor, I would vote for it 100 percent. But at the end of the day, Kamala Harris and the cabinet, they have a responsibility to the American people. They have a constitutional duty to the American people.
BREAM: So let's talk about the vice president because, you know, our previous guest, former Congressman Ryan, has said that she's more energetic. She would connect better with women, with voters of color, places where Democrats are having some surprising trouble.
CNN polling taken after the debate shows that she does poll better against President Trump than President Biden does. They say this: She's within striking distance of Trump in a hypothetical matchup, 47 to 45, with registered voters. That's in part on broader support for women, 50 percent of female voters back Harris over Trump versus 44 percent for Biden, and Independents, 43 percent for Harris versus 34 percent for Biden.
Is there an acknowledgment within the Trump campaign that you may have to pivot to a different candidate who actually has some strengths that the current President does not when it comes to polling?
DONALDS: No, we don't believe so. We think also if you start to really dig into some other polls that have come out that Donald Trump just does just as well against Kamala Harris, if not better, when you compare her to Joe Biden.
The other thing is, we've not really gone into depths with the record of Kamala Harris. When she was a United States senator, she co-sponsored and fully supported Bernie Sanders' radical takeover of American health care, would have added $32 trillion to a $35 trillion debt already.
She co-sponsored and fully sponsored this radical Green New Deal, which would cost the American people almost $100 trillion, and it would make electricity prices higher and it would make our inflation problems worse.
And then you look at her job as vice president. She's the border czar, but did nothing. The last time she was at the border almost two years ago, there have been 6 million new illegal immigrants in our country. What did she do? She's the A.I. czar, nothing materialized. What did she do? And then you get to the interviews. I mean, whether you're talking about the cackling laugh or Venn diagrams, there's not been anything of substance.
So, if she's now at the top of the ticket, our game plan remains the same. It talks about the disastrous agenda from the Biden-Harris administration and how Donald Trump will make America great again.
BREAM: So the Federalist, which agrees with you on most of those things, also has a warning for Republicans about where they depend on voters showing up. They say this, Republicans can't assume their polling and debate performances will be enough to win this November. The party must keep its foot on the pedal of ballot operations.
There have been questions about the Trump campaign, about the Republican strategy for, you know, turnout, for ballot harvesting, for all these things that have been opposed in the past, but where they're legal, the party is now advocating. What is the plan on that front?
DONALDS: Also, I will tell you, as a party, we are fully supportive of depending on the jurisdiction and where the state laws are in that area. If it means that you have to go out and make sure people return absentee ballots, you go ahead and do that. It is about making sure that the ballots are in, that you get as many people registered, you get as many people turned out to support President Trump.
Like, I know people in our country are looking at the fact that Joe Biden is literally falling apart in front of our eyes, confirming what everybody knew. Now everybody knows 100%. But you still have to execute the game plan in the campaign.
That means people going out to the polls and actually voting, not just looking at the public opinion polls, which obviously demonstrate that Donald Trump is in a great position. But at the end of the day, the party is united about making sure we get voters out to the polls. GOTV operations are going to be crucial in this election.
BREAM: So can you tell us anything about the president's, vice presidential selection? Do you know a timeline? Do you know the pick?
DONALDS: I do not know the timeline. I do not know the pick. Donald Trump's going to do that.
I will say that if you take a look at the job that obviously Joe Biden's a disaster, but even Kamala Harris, these two really have not had an interest in what the American people are trying to have, which is secure borders, lower costs at the grocery store, lower housing costs, a thriving economy and peace around the world, actual true global leadership, not global pandering.
And so I think whoever Donald Trump decides to go with is going to be an exemplary pick. We are going to have a significantly better president in the Oval, and we're going to have a significantly better vice president being his partner to help make sure our country gets back on track.
BREAM: Well, we'll see in the coming days who the opponents are going to be and who is added to the RNC ticket as well. Congressman, thank you. Always appreciate your time.
DONALDS: Thank you.
BREAM: Up next, what happens if President Biden does step down from the ticket? We've got an expert to explain how this could play out. What obligation are these pledged delegates under or aren't they when they show up at the convention?
Plus, our Sunday panel looks at all the landmines ahead as Democrats wrestle with how to move forward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. SEN. ABRAHAM RIBICOFF (D-CT): And with George McGovern as president of the United States, we wouldn't have to have Gestapo tactics in the streets of Chicago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: That was Senator Abraham Ribicoff at the chaotic 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, something Democrats do not want to see repeated next month when they are back in the Windy City.
Speculation that President Biden could drop out of the race has many wondering how his replacement would be chosen and how a possible contested or open convention might work. We've got an expert, Distinguished Professor of History at American University, Allan Lichtman.
Professor, welcome to the show.
ALLAN LICHTMAN, DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
BREAM: All right. I want to start with this because Congressman Brad Sherman, a Democrat, says this, counter to popular belief, the rules of the Democratic Party do not require that pledged delegates vote for Biden at the convention. Party rules require delegates' votes, quote, "reflect the sentiments of those who elected them at the time they cast their ballots."
Democrat primary voters, he says, had one overarching sentiment, we need a candidate who will beat Donald Trump. Can you give us a sense of the delegates? I mean, what legal obligation or otherwise do they have if President Biden says he's not going to leave the ticket?
LICHTMAN: Well, you know, delegates could, in fact, decide to replace President Biden. But based on history, that would be a disaster to have a convention brawl. What do all of these politicians, political operatives, journalists, pundits, have in common who are calling for Biden to leave the ticket? Zero track record in predicting elections.
Remember, they all assured us Hillary Clinton was bound to win in 2016. We do have a system, the 13 keys to the White House, which has been right for 40 years. And it shows how disastrous it would be for the Democrats to have a big brawl and replace Biden. Biden checks off two of my 13 keys, incumbency and party contest. Remember, 87% of voters voted for Biden in the primaries. That means on my system, six of the remaining 11 keys would have to fall to predict his defeat.
On the other hand, under this scenario, they lose incumbency, they lose party contest. Only four more keys would have to fall. They would be setting up the same situation that led to the election of Donald Trump in the first place in 2016, an open seat with no incumbent running and a party contest. And you can go all the way back to 1900. And since that time, under those conditions, the party holding the White House has won zero times, whereas with a sitting president and no contest, they've won 75% of the time.
So all of this is being fueled by historical ignorance, not a real knowledge of how elections work.
BREAM: All right, Professor, we'll put you down for it. It's more dangerous to give up the incumbency than to move ahead with the man currently at the top of the ticket. We'll see what we get as we inch closer to the convention.
Professor Allan Lichtman, thank you so much.
LICHTMAN: Thank you very much.
BREAM: It is time now for our Sunday group. Democratic strategist Meghan Hays, Michael Allen, former Bush National Security Official, "The Hill" National Political Reporter, Julia Manchester, and Doug Heye, former RNC Communications Director.
All right. Welcome, everybody.
MICHAEL ALLEN, FORMER BUSH NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIAL: Good morning.
BREAM: Good to see you this morning.
JULIA MANCHESTER, THE HILL NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Good to see you.
BREAM: We know that there's been a lot of pressure on President Biden to step away from the ticket. Friday night, sounds like he's not going anywhere. There is a push, though, from donors who are now saying they want to pull their money, not just from the campaign, but from other candidates who will not call for him to step away.
Julia, how powerful could that be as a voice to convince him?
MANCHESTER: That's extremely powerful, because that's the argument we've heard from what the five House Democrats who have called on Biden to step down, that this will have a down ballot effect.
Now, this week, lawmakers are back on Capitol Hill, so we can expect a very wild week with reporters chasing around those lawmakers and staffers in the hallways. And they're going to be forced to answer this question.
Will you support Biden in the long run? And I think right now, a lot of these lawmakers are back in their districts talking to voters. And a lot of the lawmakers we've talked to on the Democratic side have said, look, there's a real concern among voters and they're in a very tricky, tricky situation right now.
So it's the risk of, you know, are they going to listen to those voters who are telling them that, you know, maybe it's time to call on Biden to step down? Some lawmakers say voters want him to stay in. Or do they, you know, are they sort of afraid of the retaliation they might get from calling on the President to step down?
BREAM: Well, also, we have this group of donors, "The Washington Post," reporting that they're putting together $2 million to have something that would be akin to like a mini primary. It says they're pressing for an open competition for the Democratic nomination that would draw public attention if Biden drops out. The group is looking for robust debates rather than merely coalescing around Vice President Harris or another nominee.
And Michael, you heard this floating of a mini primary kind of idea and whether that would be a better way not only to that potentially Vice President Harris, but others who would then maybe serve as her vice president if she's chosen as the top of the ticket.
ALLEN: Can you imagine the chaos that would yield?
BREAM: I'm guessing Republicans would love it.
ALLEN: The Republicans, I think, would love it. I think it's the great unknown for Democrats. I think they cannot move forward with an open convention with a truncated primary process.
So I think the question for them is, does Vice President Harris show any polling promise in the so-called blue wall states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin? If she's doing better or even incrementally close to where Biden is, I think then people begin to say she's a better bet than going, of course, with the open primary, but even a better bet than going with the president.
BREAM: OK, well, there's this from the "Wall Street Journal" editorial board talking about Democrats are in this position with the vice president and potential doubts about her ability because this is the path they chose, saying Democrats now run the risk of appearing to bypass the first minority woman vice president in a backroom coup. This is what happens when a party puts identity politics above governing experience and political skill.
Meghan, how does she convince folks she's ready for this job?
MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I mean, millions of people have already voted for her on the ticket in the primary. So she already has the confidence of a lot of people. She also gets the money that they have raised together.
So it would be inconsequential or be consequential, I'm sorry, to not give her this spot. But also she polls really well against independents and moderates. And she also has something here. She doesn't have the age issue here for on her side going against her like the president does.
And she also pulls really strongly against Roe. So this is going to be one in the margins with the independent women, suburban women. And those are the women who are going to coalesce behind her. And that makes her a really strong top of the ticket for the Democrats.
BREAM: Well, Doug, we have all these double haters. They've been telling us for more than a year we do not want this rematch. So what if they now have someone they have as more palatable? It's not Biden. It's not Trump. It's a younger, fresher face. And as Meghan said, I mean, she's been the foreperson on this abortion issue, which has done well for Democrats.
DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yeah, this is probably the worst movie sequel since Police Academy 17 or something like that.
BREAM: I like that one.
HEYE: Voters -- voters -- it might have been one of your favorites. Voters don't want this. And I think if we go back to the midterm elections, Democrats did better than expected, in part because Republicans way overplayed the expectations game.
If Joe Biden then had walked off in victory, said, I've delivered the White House, I've -- you know, I've done overperformed in Congress, I'm going to go off into the sunset, Democrats would be in a much better position. And the reality is there are no good options. They're damned if they do this to Joe Biden.
And they're damned if they don't. That's why I think you see so much nervousness about any reaction. And with Democrats and obviously Republicans, too, on Capitol Hill this week, we're going to hear a lot of Democrats essentially echo Republicans who said, I didn't see Donald Trump's tweets.
They might not have watched the interview, even though they did. They don't want to talk about this. And they are very fearful of speaking out. It's why we hear private things and public things.
BREAM: Well, OK, to the point about that interview, I want to play a little bit more about the president was repeatedly pressed on whether he would take a neurological or cognitive test exam and release the results publicly. Here's part of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Would you be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cognitive tests and release the results to the American people?
BIDEN: Look, I have a cognitive test every single day. Every day I have a test. Everything I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: So he says he's having the test every day by being president. But Ruth Marcus writes this opinion piece over "The Washington Post." "What is the reasonable argument other than avoiding politically inconvenient results for not doing so and declining to have testing is not like refusing to testify? It can and should be used against you in the court of public opinion." Michael.
ALLEN: I don't think it's going to help them if they go down this pathway because then people have more questions about the test. And can we see it in public?
The real problem here is that this is going to happen again. It wasn't just a one-time, I didn't do well in a debate unscripted format. They have a long way to go in this campaign, and the White House has absolutely no plan to ensure that the November election is not about Joe Biden and his age and his health.
They are on a path to that. And there's nothing they can do about it, unless they can string together several appearances try and get through this week. By the way, he's going to do a high wire act in a press conference on Thursday afternoon. If they can get through that, get to the Republican National Convention, figure out who Trump's vice president can be maybe they can study the ship for a while and hope they can get past the post.
And to that, there they're playing a time game here.
BREAM: Mm-hmm.
HEYE: We have -- obviously, the debate was a disaster. It took eight days for the interview to happen with George Stephanopoulos. That wasn't an accident. Six days later, they're going to do the press conference.
This is a North Carolina four corners stall offense. They want to run out the clock. And this is where they may have success.
BREAM: Well, and if they -- if they wind up though with the vice president at the top of the ticket. She's going to have to answer, Meghan, for all of these policies. I mean, their -- Hur policies too, as part of this administration and you heard Byron Donalds there, Florida congressman, talking about the border which she was made the czar and everybody thinks it's worse than it ever was.
And while she also have to ask questions -- answer questions about why if she's so close to the president, she didn't raise alarm bells about his deterioration.
HAYS: I think that she's not raising alarm bells because the premise is wrong. They don't think there is a problem here. They're saying that this was a bad night so she's not -- she think she's on these calls with the Bibi Netanyahu and talking about the Middle East. So she thinks that he is capable. And for all accounts and all the reporting, you know, she's standing behind him and saying that.
Also, she is going to have to answer for the policies, but all that the -- on the border, they try to put together a bipartisan deal that was shut down by MAGA Republicans.
So I mean, they -- they're -- she also can have that to fall back on just like the president does.
BREAM: But several years of trouble, Julia, before we got to that deal, that fell apart.
MANCHESTER: Right. Several years of trouble. And look, just to the vice president again, there is polling that would suggest she pulled -- she does better against Trump and a head to head match up than Biden.
But the question for Harris is, you know, how -- what does she do next? How long does she stand behind the president?
She has, you know, from, by many accounts, put on a very strong performance a strong front over the past week or so, you know, that could be, you know, an improvement in her communication style work by design.
HEYE: And she knifed Joe Biden in that first debate. We all saw --
MANCHESTER: Yes.
HEYE: -- it was a negative reaction.
BREAM: OK.
HEYE: She may have more knives.
BREAM: She might. OK. There are a lot of knives in Washington.
Panel, don't go far. A brand-new ruling this weekend, in one of the federal criminal cases against President Trump in connection with the Supreme Court decision on immunity.
Up next, our legal eagles about whether the high court's decision means some of those cases against President Trump are now officially on shaky ground.
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BREAM: This weekend, the federal judge put a pause on the criminal case against President Trump involving classified documents. That decision was directly linked to the Supreme Court's immunity ruling just last Monday.
So, how does the decision by the justices affect all these pending cases? Here with answers. We hope. Fox News contributor and George Washington University Law Professor, Jonathan Turley. Author of the new book, "The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage."
And Tom Dupree, former principal deputy assistant attorney general.
Gentlemen, we can't stop meeting like this. These legal problems are not going away.
So let's start there with Judge Cannon in the Mar-a-Lago documents case. It kind of put a pause on some of the deadlines to say, all right, we may allow the Trump team to come back and argue that the Supreme Court's decision on immunity applies here, though.
Tom, I'm assuming the prosecutors are going to argue everything that happened after he was president.
TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: That's what the prosecutors are going to argue.
And look, I mean, to be fair, I think that the Mar-a-Lago case probably implicates the immunity question a little less than the January 6 case in Washington, D.C.
But here's the thing. The Supreme Court and Justice Thomas' concurring opinion questioned the constitutionality of the independent counsel, the special counsel.
And I think Justice Thomas, although he certainly wasn't writing for an audience of one, I promise you that his words are going to be very carefully reviewed by Judge Cannon in Florida. Because as you know, the Trump team is challenging the legality of Jack Smith's appointment.
And I think Judge Cannon is going to read what Justice Thomas wrote when she considers whether Smith was even lawfully appointed.
BREAM: Well, that could be a whole linchpin in that entire case. And he's got the case here, obviously, in Washington as well.
"National Review" says this, "Combined with last week's Fischer case, which throughout the main obstruction charge against the January 6 rioters, the immunity decision tears the heart out of the special counsel prosecution of the former president for his conduct on that sorry day."
What is left of this case here, this January 6 case?
JONATHAN TURLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, what's left is a very motivated judge and a very motivated special counsel.
And so I think that you're going to have the special counsel arguing, look, this falls into the second or third categories. Some of this may be official conduct, but we can overcome the presumption. And some of this is purely private conduct.
And he may be able to succeed in threading that needle. But some of his case is going to be knocked off. I think that, frankly, those two opinions ripped the wings off his case.
But he's going to try to get this down the runway nonetheless. I think that in the end, it's going to take the biggest hit of all the cases. I agree with Tom in that regard.
BREAM: Mm-hmm.
TURLEY: And remember, they have a right to appeal this stuff. And so it's going to be very difficult putting aside what is lost in the mix.
What is certainly going to be lost is the calendar. It's going to be hard to get this going before the election.
BREAM: Well, to that point, "Washington Post" reports this. "The Justice Department plans to pursue the Trump cases past election day, even if he wins." Saying, "If Donald Trump is elected president, the finish line for federal prosecutors is inauguration day, not Election Day. People familiar with the discussion said."
And, Tom, that was cited in this filing that the Trump team did with Judge Cannon down in the documents case like, whoa, what is this information leaking out from the DOJ?
And the fact that they would go right up to inauguration day if he's re- elected?
DUPREE: That seems so perplexing to me, Shannon.
In other words, I get the point that if Trump is elected, that his administration will come in until January 20th.
But at the same time, for Jack Smith to continue to pursue a case that he knows is going to be extinguished at noon on January 20th, seems somewhat harassing, arguably abusive.
It's not as though he's going to be able to jam a trial into that several month window. And even if he could, does it make sense when the person you're putting on trial is the elected forthcoming president of the United States?
Doesn't make any sense to me, Shannon. I'd be surprised if he actually adheres to that promise.
BREAM: Well, we'll have to see who gets elected. We've got to see who's on the ticket. First of all, as we go into November.
So let's talk about the state cases. So the New York case, where he's already been convicted, 34 felony counts, they're awaiting sentencing. That's been delayed.
But they also want to reconsideration there, and in the Georgia case about whether this immunity decision undoes the state cases.
TURLEY: Look, this is going to have an impact on both those cases, but it really puts the lie to what people are suggesting.
You've got people like Rachel Maddow saying that we may see death squads in the streets of Washington, D.C. And we're not going to replace the Madisonian democracy with some John Wick Republic after this opinion.
This opinion took the middle ground. And the hearing in New York is going to show that. That is, Merchan's going to look at this and find that much of this is private conduct and it's not protected.
Now, some of it does go to conversations held in the White House. That could be knocked out. The Georgia case is going to have a more significant degree.
That case was a bit of a peddler's wagon. They threw everything into that indictment and some of that clearly will be impacted by what the court said.
Remember the court said, this is about protecting, not just conduct, but also conversations that the president has with other executive branch officials in conducting official duties.
BREAM: Well, speaking of conversations and communications, I want to ask you about something in your new book, "The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage."
You talk about the situation with the Supreme Court sort of didn't rule on regarding communications between the administration and the social media companies during COVID and during the election in 2020.
You say the First Amendment was designed to prevent state control over media through prayer restraint and direct regulation. But it's possible to have state media by consent rather than coercion.
The government found willing allies in media and social media companies for a system of censorship and blacklisting.
And based on what the Supreme Court sort of didn't do, there's no, you know, formal ban on that at this point.
TURLEY: That's right. And that leads it to the political system.
I'm surprised that Donald Trump and the other competitors in this race don't make free speech the central issue.
Joe Biden, is in my view, the most anti-free speech president since John Adams. And you'll remember John Adams was defeated by Thomas Jefferson in 1800 on the basis, in part, of his attack on free speech.
But what we have today is something that should be part of this debate. It is an unprecedented system of censorship. And it is supported by what I've called censorship by surrogate where the government gets academic and corporate interest to silence critics and dissenting voices.
BREAM: All right. Quickly, Tom, before we go, because of what we've got in the current events going on, do you think that Hur recording of President Biden, there's going to be more of a push to release it now?
DUPREE: Absolutely. And I mean, that's the great irony here, Shannon, is that you remember when Robert Hur came out with his report saying that he wouldn't prosecute Biden. This is an old man with a failing memory. He was hammered by everyone. The Democrats went crazy.
Well, it turns out he might have had a point. I do think there's going to be increased pressure to release those recordings. I could see many Democrats who want Biden off the ticket to make that exact push because it'll get that further out.
I suspect that the recording is not favorable to the president. If it were, they would have released it already.
BREAM: Yes. Robert Hur may be feeling vindicated these days.
Gentlemen, always good to see you.
TURLEY: Thanks, Shannon.
BREAM: Thank you so much.
Up next, Fox News takes you inside Gaza with the Israeli Defense Forces, seeing the very latest on the ground in the war in a war-ravaged Rafah.
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BREAM: As we await word on a possible ceasefire in the Middle East, we have an inside view from Gaza.
Fox News correspondent Trey Yingst embedded with Israeli defense forces and traveled to Rafah. Israel's operations against Hamas, their continuous mediators work around the clock, trying to get the remaining hostages released.
Trey Yingst joins us live from Tel Aviv. Hello Trey.
TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, good morning.
Today marks nine months of war between Israel and Hamas. Now indirect ceasefire talks are set to resume this week as we got a first-hand look at the fighting in southern Gaza.
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YINGST: Israeli Hummers rolled past piles of concrete and twisted metal. A few months ago, this was a civilian neighborhood. Now, it's a battlefield.
Right now, we are inside Gaza's southernmost city of Rafah into the area of operation where the fighting between Israel and Hamas rages on.
In between the damaged houses sits a tunnel shaft. Israeli soldiers continue to go after Hamas above and below ground. But with thousands of militants still alive throughout Gaza, there are questions about what the day after the war looks like.
What does victory look like for the Israeli military?
DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESPERSON: Victory is our hostages coming back home. Victory is our citizens coming back to the border safely, feeling safe in any one of our borders.
Victory means that the enemy will not have the capability of doing another 7th of October. This is victory.
YINGST: With all eyes on Rafah, Palestinian civilians run from the aftermath of an airstrike in Khan Yunis.
Just five miles away, an overcrowded U.N. school was targeted by an Israeli fighter jet.
They need to put pressure on everyone to stop this war and this hostility. One woman says, what is happening to us is unjust. We cannot bear it. We can't.
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YINGST: If an agreement to end the war in Gaza is reached, Israeli officials are hopeful it will deescalate tension with Hezbollah along Israel's northern border with Lebanon.
Shannon.
BREAM: Trey, a fascinating look inside. Thank you very much to you and your team.
We're back now with our panel.
OK. So, obviously, the Middle East is just one of the many things that the president is trying to navigate here.
The National Security journal had a piece after the debate the other night saying that his current condition is a threat to national security, saying, "Biden's fumbles may have started a clock toward war across the globe with adversaries and enemies having more than four months to exploit Biden's apparent mental incapacity."
Michael, does that apply in the case of Hamas as well? I mean, are they looking at him as they decide whether they're actually going to do this deal?
ALLEN: So I think people around the globe are looking at President Biden, and honestly, so are American voters. It's hard to believe that he's going to be able to carry a message in a tough multilateral or bilateral session.
On Hamas, I think Biden has been helpful to their position all along by being overly critical of Israel.
However, I think we're finally on the verge of a deal, a hostage situation because Iran -- because Israel is finally nearing the end of major combat operations in Gaza. That enables them to say we're not going to have any more war and that would I think allow Hamas to finally sign up to this agreement that the United States and Israel have endorsed and release the hostages sooner rather than later.
So maybe it won't have a direct impact, but I think it's part of the larger national security discussion here on NATO Week.
BREAM: Yes. NATO Week this week. Here's what the president said about that's coming here to Washington.
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I guess a little good way to judge me is you're going to have now the NATO conference in the United States next week. Come listen. See what they say.
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BREAM: "Washington Post" thinks there will be a lot of folks listening and watching on this saying the question is whether Biden can navigate the complicated web of interactions over the three-day event that will involve nearly 40 leaders, their entourages, a swirl of one-on-one meetings and the pressures of being the most important NATO leader at a moment when any misstep could spell political doom.
And, Julia, that includes a live press conference this week.
MANCHESTER: Yes. So in that theme interview, we heard President Biden say he takes a cognitive test every day. Well, I guess this is an example of that this week.
So it will not only be him taking questions from the press on Thursday and what will likely be a hard-hitting press conference. It's going to be in front of other foreign leaders.
But I guarantee you, other foreign leaders are coming to Washington this week and their eyes are going to be on the president because we have heard that there is some concern.
And I just want to go back to the A.I. comment you mentioned earlier. That is a talking point, essentially, of the Trump campaign.
The Trump campaign has always touted that during his administration, we weren't seeing the Ukraine war. We weren't seeing the war in Gaza. So Biden is going to have to very much push back against that, because we're going to see the Trump campaign going on the offensive in terms of opposition research this week during the NATO conference.
BREAM: Well, and Megan, how much pressure is there on the president with all of these things coming along? And foreign leaders who, I would imagine mostly are going to want to stay out of domestic politics, but they have concerns. Some of them have, you know, aired those privately.
HAYS: Yes, absolutely. But let's not forget, this is not the first time that he's done a NATO conference. This is something he does every year. He was just in France for the Normandy anniversary. He was just in Italy for the G7.
He meets with foreign leaders and goes overseas quite frequently. So this is not something new to him. He does press conferences at all these different trips abroad.
Americans just aren't paying attention most of time when he's over there. But these leaders know him. They work with him. He talks to them frequently.
You know, Secretary Blinken and Jake Sullivan and the National Security team all are in contact with these folks. So this is not something new. It just happens to be new because it's here in Washington for people who are paying attention, but he meets with these folks frequently. So they are fully aware of what's going on here.
BREAM: Well, which makes me wonder too, if they will note a difference in him because they have had those close relationships the last three years and whether there's a different President Biden now.
I want to make sure we talk about the U.K. too because the elections here, Doug, you're just back from over there. It's called the "Anatomy of a Landslide." "The election has dramatically reshaped Britain's electoral map. Nearly half of seats in parliament changing hands delivering the conservatives the worst defeat in their nearly 200-year history."
And it feels like it's in juxtaposition with a lot of what is happening in Europe, which has been leaning more right. And we're watching those French elections today too.
HEYE: Well, a lot of what's happened has also been very anti-incumbent.
And when I was in London, in Hartford, England, I was with several former senior members of staffers for various recent conservative prime ministers. They were apoplectic at what a disaster they saw this to be.
And, yes, it was a big result for labor. But that's because it was a cratering for the Tories. And what we've seen is the Greens took a little bit here. The Lib Dems took a little bit here, actual seats and obviously Labour. It's a huge majority, but it's a thin one for Labour.
BREAM: Well, the brand new Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, will be here as part of the NATO meeting this week with the world watching, the U.S. and more importantly, the president.
Panel, thank you very much.
HEYE: Thank you.
BREAM: Good to see all of you.
OK. Up next, President Biden insists he is in it to win it. We're going to take a look at his pressure-packed schedule coming up this week, as he tries to convince voters and his party that he is up for another four years.
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BREAM: Now back to our top story. President Biden's attempt to convince a growing number of skeptical Democrats that he should stay in the race for a second term in the White House.
Let's go back to check in with Lucas Tomlinson in Harrisburg following the president. Lucas?
TOMLINSON: Shannon, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is meeting virtually today with fellow Democratic leaders in the House to perhaps take a pulse and hear from concerns from fellow Democrats about if President Biden should exit the race, this ahead of Congress reconvening in Washington this week.
We heard from other House Democrats earlier five now publicly calling for President Biden to exit the race.
One House Democrat says he wants to meet President Biden face to face this week to see how he's doing.
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REP. AMI BERA (D-CA): I would be cautious that if the White House, if the administration, if the president doesn't have that conversation with members of Congress, with members of the Senate, that you probably will see a number of folks starting to come out.
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TOMLINSON: And it's not just House Democrats that President Biden has to convince this week that he has what it takes to do the job and to run for re-election.
He's also hosting a NATO summit in Washington. He'll be meeting with 31 other world leaders or representatives for their countries in Washington, D.C.
The president won't have to drive very far. It'll be right down the street from the White House.
It's a critical week for President Biden this week to show the country and the world he has what it takes to be commander-chief and lead the free world.
Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Lucas Tomlinson on the road with the president. Thank you very much. And we'll give you a readout on any of those meetings being held today.
Just a quick note that my podcast, Livin' the Bream, drops today. This week, I talked with pastor and author, Greg Laurie, about a massive event he's hosting at Angel Stadium, aimed at offering hope and a time of anxiety and division. Check it out wherever you like to get your podcast, Livin' the Bream.
And before we go, a heads-up, FOX NEWS SUNDAY will be live from Milwaukee next Sunday ahead of the Republican National Convention.
We will take you behind the scenes and get you ready for the big event and our full coverage on Fox.
That's it for today. Thank you for joining us. I'm Shannon Bream. Have a fantastic week and we'll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
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